Showing thread: Potential changes discussion (Removal of buyable classes, special rounds...)
Pecon
Female Totalitarian Ruler
BLID: 9643
February 14, 2016 11:29:39
So, not a whole lot of significance has gone on since we added the Vortexian and preround countdown. However, I need to discuss this potential large change with all of you since I know it'll break some hearts. I'd like to make these changes in a way that the community will enjoy the most, even though this is primarily a game balance change (and we know everyone hates those). So without further adieu, allow me to explain these potential changes.

Removal of buyable classes
Let me clear this up right now, we are NOT removing minibosses! All we're removing is the ability to buy them at will. Read on.

So for the longest time one of the major gameplay issues in Boss Battles has been rounds that become unfairly pushed in the favor of the normals because of buyable buffs/classes/items. In the past, we also sold some items in the shop and even extra lives. We've done away with everything in the shop, except for minibosses. Why? Probably because people liked being able to sometimes just be something more than ordinary. This is the reason that instead of fully removing the Golden wrench, we made it a random boon. This is what I want to do to minibosses, I want them to be a completely random upgrade from a normal class. In addition to that, I would plan to remove the miniboss announcements to the boss, so the boss doesn't decide to afk just because some people got lucky minibosses. Of course, there are probably other ways that I can go about solving this issue too. If you have suggestions on how to go about fixing this issue, or would like to recommend a certain thing does this or that about my proposal, feel free to suggest in a reply.

Also, please vote here to indicate your general stance on this, after you have read it.

Now with that more controversial topic out of the way, I'd like to introduce something that I think everyone will find really fun.

Special rounds!
Boss Battles as a gamemode gets stale after a while, occasionally players even beg admins and super admins to perform certain things that would normally not occur, just for the sake of mixing things up. These admin-powered rounds are often really fun and exhilarating ways to really stray from the normal and just mix things up in a challenging and occasionally hilarious way. So with that in mind I'd like to propose my other idea, special rounds! Every now and again the game's rules will change drastically for a single round, which will hopefully help the game have more continued enjoyment. Here are some of the first special round ideas that come to my mind.

Gemini - When the boss selects, a random normal is moved to the boss team and forced to select the same boss. Both of them are set to half their normal size!
Randomonium - This round, nobody gets to choose their classes. It's selected randomly, and can sometimes give you classes that can't normally be picked! (Also applies to the boss)
Randomizer - All normals this round are stripped of their class and given a random loadout of weapons, including some weapons that aren't normally accessible!
Gorilla warfare - All normals are gorillas.

That's what I've thought of so far, but I'll definitely be listening to suggestions for these, and in addition to these!

...I guess the title is a misnomer since I didn't bring up anything else. Oh well.
Velor
The Dragon
BLID: 28880
February 14, 2016 11:39:04
Hmm.

This in generally sounds kinda nice, probably would have to see how it plays out when its put into effect.

May I suggest the implentation of like /toggle miniboss /toggle goldenwrench, etc?

Alphabite
Forumer
BLID: 33769
February 14, 2016 11:45:32
I have an idea for another special round.
Battle of Bosses - Every single player gets to choose a boss and fight each other, or it could be random! It might have to make the spawnrooms different for this round, but you could always re-skin the normal spawn-room and remove the shop. or just dup the boss room and add-on to it for a bigger spawn place.
Aware
Crash Test Dummy
BLID: 9374
February 14, 2016 11:46:58
I think the random minibosses would be an awesome improvement to one of the most frustrating things in the game. I have a few questions about the miniboss changes. What is going to be the limit to the number of minbosses? I think that it would be extremely annoying to have to fight 9 minibosses in a single round regardless of player count. What will happen to some of the unique minibosses like Decker? I was under the impression that minibosses should be more unique instead of being direct upgrades. I also think that the boss should be told if a normal has been upgraded to a miniboss, just like how the boss is told about the golden wrench. Just upgrade the normals after the boss spawns instead of right after they spawn kinda like how the golden wrench works.

I think the special rounds is a great idea. Is there going to be a warning before selecting a class if it is a special round? I'd like to see some other people's suggestions for special rounds.
Aquadoodle
Mystical
BLID: 20395
February 14, 2016 11:47:30
I'm gonna be the first to voice my problem with removing the ability to purchase minibosses. While I do feel like it could make things a bit more fair, it does remove a way to use your points, which basically just makes points useable for cosmetics only, not including map purchases like the bridge on Hangar and what not. To some people, that might be good, but in my eyes it's not.

The special rounds sound cool, but I would hope the 'Gemini' would also half the stats of each boss. Otherwise, having two Badspots would be absolute hell. Randomonium sounds cool, would be even cooler if there were a few classes that could only be played in that specific round.
Aware
Crash Test Dummy
BLID: 9374
February 14, 2016 12:04:55
Well Aqua, it does remove a way to spend your points but if you think about the prices of the minibosses they really are not expensive. Most players will earn enough points/boss coins in an hour of playing to do nothing but miniboss for 50 rounds, not including the points they earn while being a miniboss. The only thing that minibosses do is make your first hour on boss battles annoying because you do not have access to the special classes that everyone else does.

I do think there should be another way for players to spend their points, I just do not think that minibosses have ever truly been something that ever costed enough points to really matter.
Pecon
Female Totalitarian Ruler
BLID: 9643
February 14, 2016 12:07:11

Quote from: Velor
May I suggest the implentation of like /toggle miniboss /toggle goldenwrench, etc?

I still don't see any reason to do this other than certain people whining about being targeted by the boss. I was pretty apprehensive to even make /toggleboss, I only gave in for that one since a significant amount of people don't like being the boss and not letting them skip just led to lots of suicides.


Quote from: Alphabite
Battle of Bosses - Every single player gets to choose a boss and fight each other, or it could be random! It might have to make the spawnrooms different for this round, but you could always re-skin the normal spawn-room and remove the shop. or just dup the boss room and add-on to it for a bigger spawn place.

This one is logistically difficult, but we'll see.


Quote from: Aware
What is going to be the limit to the number of minbosses? I think that it would be extremely annoying to have to fight 9 minibosses in a single round regardless of player count. What will happen to some of the unique minibosses like Decker? I was under the impression that minibosses should be more unique instead of being direct upgrades. I also think that the boss should be told if a normal has been upgraded to a miniboss, just like how the boss is told about the golden wrench. Just upgrade the normals after the boss spawns instead of right after they spawn kinda like how the golden wrench works.
I think the special rounds is a great idea. Is there going to be a warning before selecting a class if it is a special round? I'd like to see some other people's suggestions for special rounds.

The only thing limiting the number of minibosses will be probability. Each player will have a small chance of becoming a miniboss of their class, so the chance of facing any minibosses increases as there are more players. That chance is still pretty low, though. So mathematically you shouldn't ever have to face more than one or two minibosses. A third might happen sometimes at higher playercounts, but the statistical probability will fall off pretty sharply from there.
I may have to shoehorn in a few old minibosses to act as stand-ins for one or two classes, but I'm sure it'll work out.
Maybe.
Of course, all special rounds will be preceded with obnoxious centerprint, and will probably kill the class selector gui if the round doesn't let you pick classes.


Quote from: Aquadoodle
I'm gonna be the first to voice my problem with removing the ability to purchase minibosses. While I do feel like it could make things a bit more fair, it does remove a way to use your points, which basically just makes points useable for cosmetics only, not including map purchases like the bridge on Hangar and what not. To some people, that might be good, but in my eyes it's not.

The special rounds sound cool, but I would hope the 'Gemini' would also half the stats of each boss. Otherwise, having two Badspots would be absolute hell. Randomonium sounds cool, would be even cooler if there were a few classes that could only be played in that specific round.

This is in part some of my incentive to create more aesthetic money sinks. I sorta want to phase out points entirely as the normal currency, and sorta just auto-convert points to bosscoins.
Also, the scale of your player automatically causes the damage you deal and receive to scale accordingly.
Aware
Crash Test Dummy
BLID: 9374
February 14, 2016 12:16:53
So what about Decker? How does that miniboss play in?
Ranma
Onion Knight
BLID: 11167
February 14, 2016 12:29:18
I feel like removing minibosses would make the game rely way too much on rng. What's the point of even having minibosses if you can't even use them when they would be most beneficial? Becoming jugger randomly against a Badspot is definitely not going to work in your favor. How would this even work, exactly? Will it work exactly like GW, and some random person will become a miniboss, or will there be some discrepancies? Will there be several minibosses per round or just one? Will there have to be a certain amount of players on the server in order to become a miniboss? I mean for fuck's sake this isn't Xcom I shouldn't have to worry about rng making or breaking a round. Also, removing the announcement would be pretty pointless considering that the boss would have to spawn anyways before anyone could become a miniboss, like the GW. Lastly, like Velor mentioned, if this does happen to get implemented, you should add more toggle commands (but maybe make toggles for individual minibosses and not all of them in general). I think you should either get rid of minibosses entirely (and recycle their assets to make more normal classes or boss classes) or leave them in the shop but create a tax system that makes minibosses cost more points depending on the amount of points and boss coins a player has. This would help making minibosses less common and bought less frequently.

I hope special rounds are very rare because I find it annoying as hell when admins start fucking around with the game and fuck over people who want to play normally. I guess there's probably a majority of people who like it but it deviates from normal gameplay and it's unnecessary in my opinion. If I want to play randomizer, I'll go to a randomizer server. I come here to kill red people or be a lone red person and kill others. I don't want extra shit that changes that formula. If there are going to be "special rounds", they should be purely cosmetic (normals look different, bosses look different, environment changes, etc) or even changes in the map itself (new areas open up, old areas get new stuff like buildings or props). Most of the examples you listed look like they either benefit one team only or leave the players to the mercy of rng.

All in all, I really don't like how these changes sound and I hope they'll be revised before being shoehorned into the server.

edit: fucking hell half the shit i asked was already answered and i didnt see it until after i posted
Pecon
Female Totalitarian Ruler
BLID: 9643
February 14, 2016 12:46:08

Quote from: Aware
So what about Decker? How does that miniboss play in?

That's infiltrator. Solved.


Quote from: Luneth
-wall-

Special rounds and minibosses alike will be be pretty uncommon. Everything considered this should actually make the game more consistent, not less. You won't have to suffer through a special round all the time, it'll only happen every now and again to shake things up for people who like those sorts of events.
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